Home Hair Loss Forums General Hair Loss Has anyone experieced a Norwood Level reduction with lasers yet?

Has anyone experieced a Norwood Level reduction with lasers yet?

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by Lakers » March 3, 2009 at 1:19 pm #113661

I was talking to a cousin of mine otp the other day(lives in phoenix). He’s gone from a pretty solid NW 2.5 to a thin NW 4 within the last 3 years. He is not a fan of propecia and we have always exhcanged conversation about hairloss. I got him using nizoral and nioxin scalp renew etc.

I told him about the LLLT movement here on the forum and the great results people were getting. He then asked me if it was possible to reverse on the NW level with a properly built messiah (high diode count). It was a good question. I didn’t want to say a definite “no” because the device I use is sub par in comparison to the messiah and others, so I’ve no first hand experience.

Has anyone here experienced or perhaps in the first stages of regressing back to a lower NW?

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by Joanne » March 3, 2009 at 2:59 pm #113671

Lakers,

This isn’t a definitive answer to your question, but it sounds like your cousin is still within the dreaded “30 month window” when some think hair follicles quit for good, so maybe he has a better than average chance.

That’s what I’m hoping for me…

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by Anonymous » March 3, 2009 at 4:29 pm #113680

In my opinion from looking at alot of laser clinic pics etc i think people can go back 1 figure on the norwood scale around the 12-18th month mark. I say this because in there pics the part on the scalp that seems to grow back best is the outline of the persons norwood shape. Almost like that line moves in about an inch. Again its just my opinion

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by hapyman » March 3, 2009 at 6:41 pm #113691

I would say that it may not reverse his loss all the way back to normal but if anything it will stop his loss and improve his hair for cosmetic reasons. And who knows in the long term 1-2 years there may be even more benefits that we have not seen yet. Not many people have gotten there except OMG who is just starting to get into that range.

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by Lakers » March 9, 2009 at 12:39 pm #114102

Thanks for the input guys. I think he’s going to make a cluster of about 70 diodes X 3 zones. I also believe he’ll be able to add some new hair to the frontal region after so many months.

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by pimpin_hair » March 11, 2009 at 12:20 pm #114276

Cue, what’s your regimen, bro ?

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by billythekid » March 11, 2009 at 8:10 pm #114325

i’ve lost ground after 2 months. no new hairs appearing in temples either. hopefully things will turn around.

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by Anonymous » March 11, 2009 at 9:45 pm #114341

Pimpin hair…

My regimen is as follows..

400 diode helmet 3x20mins a week. (2months in)

1.25gm fin every second day (3.5 years in) plan on slowly dropping once lasers kick in.

minox 1.5ml a day

Garlic and olive oil mix with a dermaroller 1.5mm once a week.

Ive also just added 1ml of magnesium chloride applied every night. (i apply to my leg as it stings my scalp but still eventually reaches the scalp)

Plus an all around healthy diet.

Ive reached my peak with fin and minox. Deffently they grew back some hair but now am stable on them so hopefully once the lasers kick in (6 months is the plan) than ill slowly ween off fin and swap minox for something natural

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by billythekid » March 11, 2009 at 10:59 pm #114349

cuebreeze, if you’re not getting sides with fin or minox then it could be a bad idea to drop them.

though you could always go back if you feel you need to…. just don’t freak out if you get a shed a few months after dropping them.

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by Anonymous » March 11, 2009 at 11:02 pm #114351

i am getting sides on fin. Soz its hard to keep up with so many similar threads. ill be slowly getting off fin alltogethor over a 1 year period i rekn

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by Lapwing » March 12, 2009 at 11:14 am #114382

I would say I have improved almost a half (0.5) NW. For me I have seen the most improvement in the crown area. Temples are maintaining, but I am not seeing any significant improvement there yet. The temple areas are notoriously hard to get any improvement there, so I am happy with just no further loss there. I have been on lllt for 11 months now.

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by amsch » March 12, 2009 at 11:38 am #114385

I haven’t seen any reduction of NW lvl’s yet, but several people seem to have an increase on NW even on lasers (billythekid, Jus and ThSman all said they lost ground on temples while on lasers)

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by OverMachoGrande » March 12, 2009 at 12:18 pm #114387

…and I’m afraid that there aren’t many people here that’s going to really pay attention to what you’ve “seen”, Amsch, based on your fallacies when interpreting other pictures. And once again you are using this blanket statement for “lasers” to apply it to everything, just like you did with a laser comb the other day. ThSman’s has focused 10mW lasers resting on the surface of the scalp, and I think he only has like 30 of them. There is NO WAY that you should classify what he is doing as the same thing as ours, and that’s what you repeatedly try to do.

FAIL.

Everyone else…

About this thread, though, reversing Norwoods aren’t realistic expectations. You’ve GOT to understand this so you know just what you are dealing with. Stopping further baldness, thickening existing hairs, and some regrowth are what lasers do, and that, by far, is the best success of any hair loss treatment in the world -we know that here already, and the world will know that when that hood device get’s FDA approval, and in a few years when I get mine.

People are in denial for some reason about follicles… the name of the game is PREVENTION here. Once again, imagine that your follicles are little tiny livers or hearts or something that have been damaged to the point that they no longer function. NOTHING helps livers and hearts once they get passed a certain point… they don’t function and do what they are supposed to do anymore, and if you want a functioning heart, liver, OR HAIR FOLLICLE… you’ve got to get new ones.

BY DEFINITION… if you’ve gone up on the Norwood scale, that means that you have a “slick bald” area now where the other Norwood class was located. When you have a slick bald area… those aren’t coming back! They don’t even come back in people that have gotten SEX CHANGE OPERATIONS! -Meaning no more DHT at all! That should speak volumes to everyone!

Don’t EVER expect to reverse a Norwood level… that’s why you’ve got to jump on this shit and don’t let anymore time pass. You’ve got to be proactive as hell.

-O.M.G.

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by Lapwing » March 12, 2009 at 12:47 pm #114391

Hey OMG,

I agree about the time thing and about prevention. I am trying as fast as I can to be as proactive as possible. Fortunately I did not have slick bald spots in the crown area, but they were heading that way.

I find it funny to hear people say how they are going to wait and see as if they have all the time in the world. It doesn’t work that way in MPB. If you wait you lose time and hair and recovery prospects. The best people can hope for is to get back to where you were 30 months ago. That is a pretty good rule of thumb for highest expectations.

If I abated and improved my hairloss say since around 12/2007 as I believe, then my best expectation is to get back to 06/2005 hair status. They would be great for me. I am not quite there yet, but I am still improving every month and may just get there.

There is the oddball person who can improve a NW level or so, but that is only for someone who only lost his hair in very short amount of time before he started reversing his hair loss. Unfortunately for this type, that means they have aggressive hair loss, which usually is very resistant to any treatments. So it is a really rare case that gets that dramatic of a turn-around and is only applicable to their special case.

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by OverMachoGrande » March 12, 2009 at 12:59 pm #114393

Absolutely right, Lapwing! You nailed it!

I think I got back to my late 2006 level, by the way, except for a few stubborn spots. Those “stubborn spots” are the ones that I lost very quickly with the Rogaine Foam debacle, and that’s why I feel that yes… Rogaine Foam killed some of my follicles. I would attest to that UNDER OATH!

But you know… the fact that I have had pretty much straight, unabated, agressive temple loss for YEARS, and now I have more hair 15 months after I started using lasers than I did 30 months ago… that is amazing success!

I wish “amazing success” could be described as a full reversal, but again… follicles “die” when they go slick bald, and nothing brings them back, and only in rare instances like you said does gaining back a Norwood occur.

-O.M.G

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