And in Vitro: http://www.cooperativemedicine.com/laser_library/Cancer.pdf

Looks like it's detrimental in the range which many LLLT users are experimenting with: 635-670 nm and .04 to over 3 joules. Really be careful everyone. This is scary stuff.

cancer of the hairline

If this is a joke I am not impressed as I watched my father die from Cancer in 2001 and my mother is currently in remission from Hodgkin's lymphoma.

Thorton started the thread saying this:

"People like OMG are not scientists (clearly states on his site that LLLT does not cause cancer when he is in no way qualified to know and or understand that info) and you need to approach their advice and websites with caution."

In reality OMG has worked with these so called experts in the LLLT field. Furthermore you don't need a PHD to read and understand scientific studies if you take the time to examine them carefully. Just because thorton may not have this ability does not mean others don't.

There are literally THOUSANDS of studies of LLLT done over the past 40 years, there has not been ONE SINGLE CASE of lasers in healthy doses that have caused cancer.

So here we have a guy that has little credibility (posted only two times) that is claiming he got skin cancer after he started using laser therapy. The infinitely more likely scenario (if he's even credible) is that he had squamous cell carcinoma before he even started laser therapy. He just never noticed it. Then when he does notice it he feels that laser therapy caused this problem!

Combine that with the fact that he he has a total of 2 post on this forum (another reason to at least suspect his intentions). Now combine that with the fact that squamous cell carcinoma is a rather common form of skin cancer that is relatively benign (usually does not spread and kill you). And then throw in the studies themselves were based on LLLT effects on already existing cancer cells! Then add the fact that imposters are always coming on forums to promote their own agenda or have some sort of "ax to grind".

This whole thread "smells". Something doesn't sound or seem right about it. I think it's ridiculous to have the slightest worry or fear of LLLT doing anything to your skin but make it more healthy. That's what the truth is in my opinion. Unfortunately fear mongering often wins out over truth.

Of course that's what's wrong with the hair loss treatment and medical industry in general. We are given a few cornels of truth wrapped around a huge heap of bull sh-t.

Thanks for that man!!

Thorton--

LLLT, as Zix pointed out, will not induce cancer but with the proper strength, can spread already malignant cancer cells.

Plus, our lasers on the surface give 2 milliwatts, not 2 watts as purported in this study. It's 175x the amount of energy in this study, and I believe 1250x the amount of watts. It would take 58 hours straight roughly with the laser helmet to get this dosage, and it still wouldn't be the same thing since the laser is so high-powered--that's what's causing the problems.

Try taking 1250 pills of Propecia a day, and see what happens.

Doesn't this post look absolutely ridiculous now?

PS - These two studies are IN VITRO, meaning cells in a petri dish, and IN VIVO in a rat--no human. There has not been one case in the roughly 24 years of LLLT therapy for hair loss where someone has contracted cancer.

You don't need to be a scientist to read and understand a study. That's a pretty sour comment of yours.

Nid, why do we even have scientists then? I mean give any guy a glass beaker, flame and some chemicals and he'll get-er-done.. umm no. Not to mention, and you should know quite a bit about this, but often these scientific studies can go either way. Take Curcurmin for instance. I can give you two studies on curcurmin. One proving that it induces hairloss and one proving that it combats hairloss. Hmmm seems a little tricky for someone who is unqualified to be interpreting it.

Anyway Zix i'm terribly dissapointed that you simply cannot see the point being made here.

Let's put it this way. If you have a suspicious growth or mole on your head you probably don't want to continue lasering.

There is no more that can come out of this so let us END this THREAD

A better way to state your concerns would have left OMG out of the thread completely.

Perhaps too I got overly excited about the possibility of testing all sorts of things and shouldn't have even mentioned it. But wouldn't it be great to do so? Wouldn't it be great to finally get something besides anecdotal evidence? Think how many things we could get tested? Does green tea help or not....or is black tea better? Does a good supplement regimen help or not? Is 15% minoxidil really better than 5% minox? If it is, why wouldn't simply applying the 5% stuff 3 times in a row be the same thing and yield the same results? Can hair really be regrown that you lost more than 30 months ago? What's the story with copper peptides?

If we really want to move forward we somehow need to get this information. It seems to me we're all running around blindly in all different directions with only anecdotal evidence and theory to guide us. We need more than that. We need some studies done that we can trust are being done scrupulously.

Always good talking with you jaydee.

On this LLLT..."I think it's ridiculous to have the slightest worry or fear of LLLT doing anything to your skin but make it more healthy. "

That is not true. You can overdo things. We're finding out that what these clinics are using may actually be better than a mega-diode filled helmet. But that's only from forum members "testing" and/or comparison to the clinics photos..etc.

But I have yet to read or see anything that tells me "LLLT is the best treatment for hair loss," as is/was advertised. And I do not believe that all of Thorton212's comments, with respect to safety, should be so easily dismissed.

Again, I reiterate, you do NOT need to be a scientist to comprehend a study. Nobody said that OMG or any of us is actually conducting the studies. That's for scientists. Get it?

Jacob--

Considering the more important "chain gang" e-mails are between OMG, myself, IH, Joe, and JPD; I highly doubt that.

Thorton again--

LLLT has actually been shown to inhibit cancer growth.

From: http://www.laser.nu/lllt/Faq1.htm

Q: Can LLLT cause cancer?

A: The answer is no. No mutational effects have been observed resulting from light with wavelengths in the red or infra-red range and of doses used within LLLT.

Q: But what happens if I treat someone who has cancer and is unaware of it? Can the cancer’s growth be stimulated?

A: The effects of LLLT on cancer cells in vitro have been studied, and it was observed that they can be stimulated by laser light. However, with respect to a cancer in vivo, the situation is rather different. Experiments on rats have shown that small tumors treated with LLLT can recede and completely disappear, although laser treatment had no effect on tumors over a certain size. It is probably the local immune system which is stimulated more than the tumor.

The situation is the same for bacteria and virus in culture. These are stimulated by laser light in certain doses, while a bacterial or viral infection is cured much quicker after the treatment with LLLT.

Sorry about the first post i did that accidently. Anyway i wanted to bring up the fact that I have a small mole on the center of my scalp that would be right in the treated area. I am now concerned that the lasers may cause something negative to happen with this mole. I was considering having this mole removed if i ever decided to shave my head. Any thoughts.