My Hairloss is a receeding hairline. Norwood 2, and diffuse thinning on top.

Besides lasers I have been taking 1mg propecia everyday for 15 months, Niz 2x weekly for 5 minutes for 18 months and 5% xandrox to the temples and hairline in the Am and Xandrox 15% in the Pm for 11 months. Noticeable regrowth from the minox. Propecia seems to have maintained the top and my crown is the thickest part of the top of my head.

I have Just added spiro 5% lotion to the temple and hairline areas a few days ago after my Xandrox application.

So by looking at my regimen does anyone see any flaws or recommend changing something so I can get some thickening at the top and restore my temples. All the hair is their at the temples so I can be a norwood 1 but it just needs to get a little more thicker.

I would appreciate the input.

Lasers might work for some but I have not heard a lot of positive results.

I think for maintenance and to prevent further loss, I would do the following:

1.- Wash with Dr. Bronner's castile soap as a shampoo, as I believe all other shampoos, can have enough chemicals in them that it could create some micro inflammation of the scalp. After all, think about, what exactly is involved in the action of "cleaning" something? Use the concept of laundry, these days no one in modern countries uses a washing stone to scrub clothers, they use laundry detergents which are strong chemicals to dissolve the stain. What are most shampoos, if not strong chemicals to dissolve sebum and dirt from teh scalp and hair. I believe there is such a fine and delicate balance between the absolute necessity of keeping your scalp 100% sebum and dirt free every day and the product you use to keep it clean. Some people's scalps are more susceptible to irritation than others, so by using a mild cleanser you reduce that possible irritation as much as you can. Of course, keeping sebum, sweat and dirt is in itself a major irritant, so the solution is not to do away with washing your hair either. They key is balance. See my previous postings for a more detail list of things to do to keep your hair.

I only just started using my lasermax 80 but I will post a 4 month picture in mid January, and a 6 month picture in March. At the very least I expect to have no visible reduction, and hopefully to have some regrowth.

the only questionable area I see deals with LLLT and minox...do they work well together? I thought I remember reading that LLLT doesn't work well when combined with minox....i could be wrong.

Well as of right now I am only using minox and spiro on my hairline and temples. I dont use anything but lasers, propecia and niz for the whole top of my head. But I am thinking of adding liquid spiro or even the lotion for the whole top of my head. I have potential of having a full thick head of hair with a pefect hairline but i thnk its going to take more than what I am doing right now. I will ad pics soon.

But on the other hand just about everything is only moderately effective! Regrowing hair is hard to do! The DIY helmets offer a low cost option that has no systemic side effects. Furthermore it needn't interfere with any other treatments you are using because you only need do it 3 times a week for 20 minutes on a clean scalp.

The fact is that this treatment was/and still is being touted as "the very best for hair loss." Now, is this what you believe?

This notwithstanding, I gather LLLT would probably be the perfect complement to a very aggressive internal regimen.

TN

Zix, you can't say that the DIY helmets have no side effects. No one has been using that large number of diodes 300+ so close to the scalp long enough to say there are no ill side effects .

However, my personal opinion is that the diy helmets are safe.

OMG made it out to be some kind of miracle,but he was selling lasers so figure it out for yourself,lol.

I have posted on this site on and of over the last 5 years and I can honestly say two things: 1. No one treatment works for everyone and 2. most of the things that have been hyped over the years have turned out to do absolutely nothing.

LLLT may be over-hyped at times, but it is a proven method to regrow hair ...PROVEN, not theorized or hypothetically should work because some study on 50 mice grew hair 1 mm longer by accident somewhere in Argentina....it actually has been PROVEN to work on people. Even the FDA has approved it to treat hairloss. It is for real.

As for the slams that are often made against members and past-members of this site....I don't care what the discussion is...whether it's internal, topical, LLLT, drugs or natural....all of those discussions are GREAT and HELPFUL, but when we turn on people because they believe in something...OMG and Immortal come to mind (as well as JACOB in years past)....well, that's just counterproductive to our overall goal of dealing with the misfortune of hairloss...If people hadn't noticed, this forum seems to be missing some pretty good resources lately. Not that there aren't knowledgeable members...there just seems to be fewer people who contribute to the conversation.

"Zix, you can't say that the DIY helmets have no side effects. No one has been using that large number of diodes 300+ so close to the scalp long enough to say there are no ill side effects .

However, my personal opinion is that the diy helmets are safe. "

Yes, true. If I had it to say over I would say something like "no systemic side effects thus far"

However I too feel it's safe. The number of diodes is irrelevant. It's all about wavelength, joules and treatment time. Too much will not work better but it is not dangerous either. All evidence (not proof but evidence) seems to suggest a beneficial and age reversing effect to the skin. Furthermore there is also evidence to suggest that it does have an anti-inflammatory benefit to the body as well.

Personally I would think that UV filtered sunlight might even be better. This has all the wavelengths except those that are damaging. I mean most of us are "malnourished" with regards to sunlight. So I personally believe that light therapy using all sorts of wavelengths could have some great benefits that are yet undiscovered.

"Joe, I have seen just as many posters say that LLLT does not work, or does not work as "advertised." "The fact is that this treatment was/and still is being touted as "the very best for hair loss." Now, is this what you believe?

This notwithstanding, I gather LLLT would probably be the perfect complement to a very aggressive internal regimen.

TN"

What new treatment that ever came out wasn't overhyped? That goes with the territory. Internal therapy has been around for a long time now....that is overhyped as well. When zix first came out....that too was overhyped. The list of overhyped treatments is endless going way back to polysorbate 80 (more than 30 years ago). But along the way came out some decent treatments. Personally here is my list of favorites. Nizoral, Zix, Minoxidil, Minoxidil with saw palmetto and betasitosterol added, LLLT (only if the device meets joule requirements) polysorbate 80.

Here's the two treatments that to me sounde very promising but have not been tried that much: Topical caffeine and topical bayberry extract.

The best treatment for hair loss? In my humble opinion the best treatment for hair loss is propecia with LLLT coming in a close second. But I would never take propecia ever again. I believe the side effects are understated and sometimes can even be permanent.

"This notwithstanding, I gather LLLT would probably be the perfect complement to a very aggressive internal regimen. "

I agree that it should be a complimentary treatment. Nothing works well enough to be a stand alone treatment. Even propecia.

Good talking with you.

"If people hadn't noticed, this forum seems to be missing some pretty good resources lately. Not that there aren't knowledgeable members...there just seems to be fewer people who contribute to the conversation. "

i have this feeling too, how do you explain it or what you mean by this please ?

Knowledgeable or not, one thing is clear nobody growing massive amounts hair. I think cue breeze mentioned something about that too.

It is almost 2010 and the one cure still stands. A good pair of cutting shears and a bottle of whiskey.

looool god

even though im sure regrowth is possible ... and is simpler than we think ... im sure of that.... lapwing are you working for lllt company ? how old are you ?

I meant that when we start attacking people for believing in something strongly, they either give up posting, get chased away, or leave on their own wishes. There was a time when IH posted on this site every hour, and when OMG posted every day....and others as well. All of these people brought something important to the conversation, and now all of these people are gone.

My point is that we need a little more respect for one another here, because we're depleting our conversations of resources and progress when we attack each other.

once for all mj , why are you talking about war between posters ?? my english i sbad i know but i dont see why you talk about that ... i m only peacefull here once for all !!

once for all mj , why are you talking about war between posters ?? my english i sbad i know but i dont see why you talk about that ... i m only peacefull here once for all !!

There are so many variables when it comes to LLLT. It is going to take a while for everybody to find the optimum settings. Unfortunately that means there are going to be a lot more failures than there should be. For me I like 25 minutes twice a week with my laser messiah helmet. I feel I do better at longer times but fewer sessions.

I think the optimum combo with LLLT is to combine it with caffeine added shampoos and use a good oil topical such as coconut oil (+tea tree oil) or use olive oil (like the Gaunitz clinic). I think using Minox with LLLT will give unpredictable results. Imo, it is best not to use minox if you do lllt and use a good oil instead. I think it was the more shady laser clinics that had crappy lllt hoods that use minox for the most part. This is speculation on my part, however, because I have never really investigated this to any length.

I use both and have good results as do many others.

guys , you dont answer me , some people and my intuition say that an excess dairy intake was a cause of hairloss ... what do you think ?

and what do you think about capsaicin ?

Capsaicin is supposed to be good for hair loss. I tried taking it orally in pill form but it gave me stomach burn big time so I stopped right away. Topically there is some marginal to ok benefit from what I have heard.

seriously , its a nightmare for me to delete my sweet milk hot chocolate breeakfast ... i was supposed to eat that until death...

sorry if i am a bit indiscret but what his your breakfast ? is there anything to replace my milk outthere ? not a joke ! no, no ...

My breakfast is this: a whole spelt tortilla with unsweetened almond butter and a protein shake of spiru-tein natural (unsweetened), unsweetened soy milk, a scoop (handfull) of blueberries and about 1/2 teaspoon or more of cinnamon powder, and a tablespoon of unrefined organic coconut oil. You asked! It is actually pretty good. I enjoy it.

Soy milk doesn't taste that good by itself, but it tastes pretty good when you add stuff and you get use to it.

For chocolate, I eat very dark chocolate (80+% cocoa) about one ounce to 1.5 ounces a day.

i've been told that all soya derived products not only was good to fight against boldness male pattern but had the effect to developing breasts .....lol... i've been told that not a joke ! lool

so more seriously you avoid cow milk and switch to soya milk on purpose to your hair treatment right ?

Around the time I went to college I just lost my interest and taste for milk. I later came to believe it was unhealthy and kind of unnatural if you think about it (I mean, adult humans wet nursing off cows just seems perverse to me.) I use to drink rice milk for a while for but yeah I switch to soy because I think it is healthier; and now also I think it helps somewhat with hair.

I think everybody is different and soy doesn't agree with everybody. I had a girlfriend who was allergic to it. It seems to agree well with me though.

How old are you?

I usually hear so many 40-50 something guys bashing legit treatments. For example my uncle, who is 58, says rogaine does not work and is a scam So surprised!!!! I should say!!

He has been bald since he was 18, and it's been 40 years. His hair follicles are long gone to heaven. What did he expect, I have no idea None of the treatments are going to work if you have no follicles in existence. Don't get me wrong, I love my uncle and I warned him "he should not waste his money because he has been bald even before I was born" There is no way follicles will remain alive for 40 years. I mean I really wished it would work for him but nope! Nothing, which was supposed to happen. I am really sorry but rogaine was not supposed to work for him at all.

Most guys who says lasers work for them are young, recently lost hair, or in the early stages of hair loss. I honestly believe anybody over NW3 should go for HT right away... If there is no money for that, they should start saving for it, if it matters that much.

I don't think it is remotely possible to move from NW4 to NW1 or something by just medications or other treatments currently available apart from HT. At best you can move one step at NW scale if you are lucky enough.

I have never seen any before / after images that will prove me wrong.

Rogaine,propecia,laser and other crap did jack shit for me when I was young and still had hair. Losing battle...once it starts to go you are fucked like millions of others.

But %90 of people who report success are the ones who recently lost hair, not the people who have been bald for years. I think you can not regrow hair if it has been more than 3-4 years. The number of years can be a little higher if you are lucky but they won't be as high as 10-15 years.

This is a live once life and If I was ever to go beyond NW2 I would get an HT. No point in wasting years waiting for miracles to happen.

Go and get the miracle done if medications are not working. Pricey? Yes! But it is doable for most.

You only have so much donor hair to use.

I`ve seen some some of these transplant guys who were beyond hope and they still look bald after their transplants. Some are even transplant doctors who have had the transplants done.

I don´t know if this is the right thread to ask about laser characteristics. If not, let me know...

I want to try the LLLT but I don´t want to spend $500. I found a supplier on the internet that offers laser pointers with the following characteristics (10 units for the price of $50):

Wavelengh: 660 nm +-5nm Output power <50mW (Class IIIb) (actually 40mw) PCB: ACC (automatic current control) Focus: Glass lens focus adjustable Operation Voltage: 6.0 DC +-0,5V CR123Ax2 Operation current: <350mA Operation Temperature: -10~+35ºC Expected life time: <5000 Hrs Do you think they are ok? My calculation is that if I need 3J/Cm2 for the bolding area, I would need to leave the laser 2,6 minutes and even less in the areas that are just thinning (1,5J/cm2).

Please, give me your opinion or let me know if I´m using the wrong thread.

Thanks!!