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| Regrowth: hello cessna: Good evening Regrowth cessna: I have enjoyed your website for quite some time, and thank you for the service. mike29: Greetings and salutations! Did I miss the Dr.? cessna: Anybody having any luck with 5% Minox? Regrowth: no the dr. isn't coming for another 20 minutes or so Regrowth: you guys are just eager beavers :) mike29: Hi John, yesterdays Dr. P chat log wasn't listed. It has you and Dr. Lee. mike29: Yes, me and my twin are eagerly awaiting. :) Regrowth: I know I haven't adde din dr. p's chat yet Regrowth: gotta do some work... be back in a few minutes... the madness never stops! :) cessna: hum dee dum dee dum.... mike29: so does anyone have any bad hair day jokes? cessna: 15 minutes 'til it's time to play the feud arbor69: feud? cessna: As in the gameshow, "let's play the feud." arbor69: ahh cessna: So, aside from the reason we are all here, how's everyone doing today mike29: since we're talking about cloning... wouldn't the game be double jeopardy? cessna: yeah, or maybe the $50,000 question :) mike29: i know.. bad pun. my sense of humor is only as sharp as my hairline. The_Lone_Raider: hi all cessna: Hello Lone Raider... mike29: John Tesh is on Fox News. Is that his real hair? arbor69: hi all The_Lone_Raider: hi arbor cessna: mike29: NO! I know because he was in my fraternity...old photos show him essentially bald arbor69: hey lone arbor69: well it looks good mike29: still looks good though. arbor69: yep The_Lone_Raider: does it? cessna: Could be a good xplant mike29: the go-tee helps him arbor69: true The_Lone_Raider: i am to assume that all here have hair loss problems? mike29: he looks human. arbor69: curious what the doc has to say arbor69: to some degree arbor69: right Spam: hello? cessna: to some degree here too, doing everything I can though arbor69: hi spam Spam: hi The_Lone_Raider: is everyone here male? arbor69: I am switching to 5% Spam: yes arbor69: soon Mike: whats happenin all Spam: ive been on 5%+Retin A for 6 months Tremor: I just bought it mike29: Hi Mike. fellow clone Spam: and proscar1.25 mg Mike: haha Mike: to bad it wasnt hair! Spam: hasnt done anything but accelerate lose cessna: I have had a period of shedding since changing from 2% to 5%, anyone similar? Spam: loss arbor69: spam is that in combonation Spam: im frustrated Mike: sounds rough Tremor: that' the only reason I haven't used it yet, the shedding...geez Mike: yeah.. that sounds like a big problem arbor69: shedding but it comes back? cessna: yeah but you have to figure that hair was on its way out anyway, and pray that it comes back Mike: they say its a part of the process but I dont find that much help arbor69: hmmm arbor69: so confusing cessna: I've just now stopped shedding mostly...so I guess we'll see what happens over the next few weeks arbor69: w/5% arbor69: ? mike29: one thing I noticed about the shedding is that many of the proscar users were also using retin A... The_Lone_Raider: how long did the shedding last? mike29: do you think the shedding could also be from using too much retin A from overdoing it? cessna: retin-a burned the $%!( out of my head Spam: my shedding has stopped Mike: good! Spam: but I have no regrowth i guess Spam: it just keeps gettin thinner and thinner Mike: it may take some time Mike: so they say Spam: been 6 mos. Mike: oh arbor69: where's the doc cessna: shedding for me set in after the first week of use, and went on for about 3 weeks Tremor: what about that stuff from Lewbosky or whatever, the 2% minox + retin-A...anyone with info on that? Mike: are you using minox spam? Spam: yes mike29: been 2 months. no shedding and regrowth is starting. The_Lone_Raider: would like to stay but i have to go :( Mike: whats your hairline like mike? mike29: Lewenberg is the "hair-antichrist" Tremor: what? why's that? mike29: diffuse thinning for about 4 yrs. hairline is still there.. just thin Mike: yeah sounds exactly like me Mike: diffuse thinning Spam: me too Tremor: oh...so you used that stuff then? cessna: me too Mike: do yo ustill have a frontal hairline Spam: getting werse by the day tho mike29: Lewenberg is out to scare everyone with half truths about proscar and 5%. cessna: anyone still using folligen arbor69: I am 29, and just want a little more back, not too much to ask for right? Mike: right! Tremor: well...then it seems already that all the topical stuff sucks, right? mike29: just turned 29 yesterday Mike: for those of you that are diffuse thinners do you still have a frontal hairline? Tremor: hey, I'm just 27... mike29: yes Mike: im 23 damnit! arbor69: a diffuse one cessna: I'm 25 ... Tremor: whoa.... arbor69: where is the doc? Mike: young men we all are! arbor69: yep Mike: its such a discracefull thing arbor69: so it seems mike29: the weird part is that some hair is growing below the hairline anout a quarter of an inch. cessna: Time to go fetch a cocktail...be back in short order Tremor: well...geez...then what's left? if all topical solutions don't work effectively, what does that leave? Mike: I keep saying that i should start treatment soon Tremor: transplants?... arbor69: time to buzz the head mike29: what left? bald chicks?...? Mike: yep thats what my brow does arbor69: mine to Mike: bald chicks that would be interesting Tremor: nah, I don't have the head shape for buzzing it off Mike: yeah hes been shavin for years Regrowth: hey everybody check out the new transplant site design and let me know what you think Mike: im not sure I could get away with it tho cessna: the thing is, if your hair has stopped growing in some places like mine, shaving is a big risk because it may never grow back Mike: thats true also Tremor: well, that makes me bring it up again...transplants worth the effort ya think? or am I just getting snowed as usual? Mike: its a matter of can you live with your hair_loss_ie looking at it every day arbor69: depends on what your expectations are Regrowth: agreed arbor69... also how much your finances can afford Mike: yep they can cost some big $$$ cessna: I dunno, I have seen so many bad transplant jobs that it makes me wary... sometimes the results are simply ludicrous arbor69: but some look good Tremor: well...obviously it's finance related...but aside from that...does it work consistently enough to pursue it? Mike: make sure you get a good doctor Regrowth: yeah if you go to the right doc Mike: cause they shure can look like shit arbor69: how do you find a good one? Tremor: ok, so what's the deal on Bosley? on the one hand they're the most prominent, on the other hand they got sued that one time... cessna: true, that's why it pays to research it highly before you go, it could be the best thing or you could wind up butchered. Regrowth: go to one's with good reputations arbor69: yeah whats up w/bosley Tremor: I've got one of those "free consultations" on Saturday with BMG, so I'm just asking Regrowth: i'm sure dr. cooley can address that when he gets here (transplant questions) mike29: law suit dont mean much.. remember McDonalds got sued for spilled coffee. A lot of sue happy losers out there arbor69: true Mike: that fleming myer cap thingy looks pretty interesting cessna: there's not a doctor around that hasn't been sued at one point or another...most have dozens on their wrap sheet. Believe me, I'm an attorney Tremor: yeah, but it could me alot also...I'd like to see *that* guy's before and after pics Mike: flap i mean Tremor: er, it could "mean" a lot also I meant Regrowth: true mike... cessna, i've seen plenty of docs who've never been sued and don't have any problems with the better business bureau mike29: I just waiting for the first loser to sue merck for Propecia. probably for excessive hair growth on face. grin arbor69: flap? Mike: yeah or his balls fell off Regrowth: there's already a woman doing that against upjohn Mike: or he shot fiery hot sperm cessna: Yes, but the BBB is not a good barometer for satisfaction all in all. Regrowth: facial growth.. not her balls falling off Mike: haha Regrowth: it's one factor... if someone has a ton of complaints against them, you know something's up Mike: thats a good thing Tremor: I hear it's like a 3 grand minamum for the BMG procedure... Regrowth: just about anyplace you go will be 2-3 grand minimum arbor69: what is bmg Tremor: er, minimum...something like that arbor69: transplant place? Tremor: yeah, Bosley Regrowth: for one procedure... 2-3 will be required for anything decent arbor69: what is the flap mke arbor69: mike Regrowth: if you wanna find out what the flap is, go to the transplant site and check out the flap information Regrowth: http://www.regrowth.com/hairtransplant/ arbor69: k mike29: but still I wasn't impressed with Bosley's commercials. It seemed too optimistic cessna: Yes, but believe me when I say that essentially all physicians have had legal issues at some point, whether warranted or not. There's those that have, and those that will. I wouldn't necessarily dismiss a physician from consideration just because he has been involved in litigation Tremor: well...I don't have any bald "spot", just getting a little thin on top overall, so I don't know how that's gonna affect cost... Regrowth: i've heard bosley is decent-good with results but overpriced Regrowth: that's true cessna... anybody can be sued whether they are guilty of anything or not arbor69: our doc is late Tremor: well, then who else is a good transplant place? they're kinda hard to find, even on the net Spam: yo...im 21 and i just wanted to keep what i had Spam: no such luck with Dr. Lee's program Spam: 6 months now cessna: Spam, hit the available treatments RIGHT NOW Spam: ive seen it all arbor69: but I willnot wear a rug mike29: hey john, any word on when the gene doc will do the interview? Spam: getting 5% rogaine tomorrow Regrowth: before you can decide that you'd have to decide whether you'd want only transplants or whether you'd consider other procedures like reductions, etc cessna: arbor69: mucho applause Regrowth: thursday or friday mike29: cool Spam: cuz i dont really fully trust dr. lee's product's effectiveness Spam: im so pissed Regrowth: on the phone with dr. cooley now arbor69: your web site tells some grusome stories about reductions Tremor: no, no reductions if I can help it, I don't see how slicing up the scalp is gonna help, how can hair grow through scar tissue anyway? arbor69: i agree mike29: Starting using Nano shampoo. any reason why not to use it everyday cept for cost? arbor69: scary procedure to me Spam: i think proscar worked in reverse for me Spam: im gonna stick with it for 6 more months Tremor: pro-scar...think about it mike29: like con-gress? Spam: because i dont know what else to do cessna: For me, proscar has been somewhat effective, and innocuous as far as side-effects Regrowth: really? I don't recall any about reductions... Spam: i take supplements Spam: and minox mike29: same as cessna here Spam: what else can i do? Regrowth: reductions are about your only way to get really good transplant results if you have extensive baldness arbor69: finasteride has worked for me, it seems to help keep what you have Spam: not for me Regrowth: how long have you been on it spam? Spam: thats all that i wanted when i started cessna: spam how long have you been on the treatments Spam: about 5-6 months Tremor: well, I don't have extensive baldness now, but what if I get some grafts put it now to thicken things up, and then later the other hair falls out and I'd need a reduction? then I'm screwed for real! mike29: ive got a lot of tiny hairs pooping up in the hair line cessna: give it some more time! Spam: i have the vellous hairs on the hairline Regrowth: definitely Spam: but my density up top has gotten so much worse Spam: more time.... Spam: its so hard Regrowth: it gets worse before better spam mike29: vellous mixed with terminal here Spam: i know Spam: but its been a long time already Spam: now im getting a lot of vellous fallout Regrowth: arbor, a good doc will plan for future loss and save hair so that if it worsens later he can do further transplantation that'll look natural Spam: not much terminal fallout, but my hair looks worse every day Mike: spam would you attribute this to the start of your treatment? Spam: i have no idea mike29: spam the fallout is normal the hair gets thicker with successive crops. cessna: spam just don't let it affect the other things in your life... if respond, it will take care of itself and nothing you can do by worrying - except lose more Regrowth: are you using just propecia spam or that and minoxidil? Spam: i use Dr.Lee's minox and 1.25 proscar religiously daily Regrowth: ahh Spam: and retin-a arbor69: is the doc on the way Regrowth: that's what I use and it's worked great for me... so have hope :) Regrowth: yeah he had problems logging in so he's trying again now Chance Goodman: Has anyone had good results with rogaine 5% mike29: Dr Lee's full treatment with Nono shampoo. John how often did you use Nano shampoo? arbor69: what is the idea behind this cloning idea Spam: im 21 years old!! in college!! how can i NOT worry about it? Tremor: wait, is Dr. Lee the same as Dr. Lewenberg? I'm getting confused cessna: I am hopeful for 5%, I've shed a lot, so I'm hoping that's a good sign Spam: i shed a lot at the beginning too mike29: Lewenberg suck!!! look him up on dejanews Regrowth: no, they're two different people Spam: now i can see places in my scalp that i couldnt before Spam: dry and wet cessna: Spam I was in the exact same situation, and I can tell you, no one notices it as much as you Spam: i just dont know Spam: i know Regrowth: spam look at my photos the same thing happened Spam: but if it continues Spam: everyone will notice Mike: has anyone heard of this website he sells proscar for a decent price www.gctc@netvigator.com mike29: spam how long have you been on the treatment? Spam: im still nor 1 Spam: about 6 months Spam: but my hair wet....horrible Spam: dry....i can style it so it looks ok... cessna: It doesn't help to hear that, I know. But fretting about it is not helping. You are at a good point in your life to have this affliction, because new things are coming out all the time mike29: give it a year Mike: hey regrowth, how does one with diffuse thinning go about rating themselves on a scale.. we dont fit any norwood rating except maybe a little bald spot in the back Spam: it sux tho....im supposed to be a GOOD candidate Spam: i got on the treatments when i first noticed my thinning arbor69: well gotta go soon, hope he is coning Spam: like a month after Spam: i just dont know what is going on Spam: and im frustrated Regrowth: you can always read the transcript, arbor cessna: Spam, you probably are. But as my father always tells me: we are of a generation that demands immediate satisfaction, and that just doesn't happen sometimes. Give it some time and do yourself a favor and try to cut your worrying by 1/2 to start Mike: yeah that could be part of your problem right there! the stress Mike: hey Doc Spam: i just want to have a decent amount of hair throughout college arbor69: well be sure to ask if these cloning treatments will help those who already are losing their hair mike29: thats why they don't sell proscar at McDonalds. Not a fast product Spam: is that too much to ask? cessna: I might sound like a jerk saying that but lemme tell you, I know cuz I've been there Tremor: but you don't stress until you already notice your hair is falling out. so it's a catch-22 type of thing arbor69: cloning, whats the scoop cessna: Tremor: you are right ! Regrowth: Hi Dr. Cooley! cessna: Greetings Dr. Cooley Tremor: yup...that's the rub... :-\ Regrowth: Ok, everybody quiet down.. please direct any questions through me and dont' ask more than one question until you see your original question asked cessna: regrowth how do I direct the question through you, I'm new at this Regrowth: you can send me a private message by typing /tell regrowth message or double clicking on my name in the list or right clicking and choosing to send me a message Dr. Cooley: Sorry for the delay, folks. I finally made it. Regrowth: Dr. Cooley, what's your take on propecia and the minoxidil combo for hair loss? Dr. Cooley: Any questions? Dr. Cooley: I think its the best option for early hair loss, no question. Regrowth: What's your realistic estimate on a timeframe for hair cloning to be available to the general public? Dr. Cooley: First alot more research has to be done; in the most optimistic projection I would say five to ten years Regrowth: What do you think of the latest gene discovery of the 'hairless' gene? Dr. Cooley: Maybe I missed something. There are many, many genes which are necessary for normal hair growth. If you knock one out, you can see hair loss. The fact that a group of people with this defective gene have hair loss does not mean that this gene (or its protein) will help those with the most common form of hair loss (androgenetic alopecia). Regrowth: What's your take on products such as Folligen? Helpful or hype when combined with more proven medical treatments? Dr. Cooley: I think they may be a marginally helpful addition to finasteride and minoxidil; other helpful topicals include retinoic acid and possibly spironolactone. Regrowth: Have you ever heard anything about propecia potentially causing testicular or breast cancer? Dr. Cooley: No I haven't. Have you heard of credible reports that this has occurred? Regrowth: What do you think of betamethazone valerate for hair loss? Dr. Cooley: I have had two patients (out of many hundreds) who were using valisone for seborrheic dermatitis and noticed that they seemed to have new hair growth; it was barely noticeable. I would be surprised if it had much growth promoting potential. arbor69: What is your opinion about transplantation? Can donor hair be obtained by other means other than the back of the head? (synthetic material?) mkd: Mexicans are not generally prone to baldness. Do they a naturally occuring gene or lack of one? Dr. Cooley: Hair is only harvested from the back and the sides of the head for most transplants (although I've seen a couple reports of using chest and even pubic hair!) Synthetic implants have been disastrous (infection and scarring) Regrowth: Please direct all questions to me in private and I'll ask the doctor. I made an exception for arbor because he has to leave. Regrowth: I've also heard of using beard hairs that were removed in a simultaneous face lift Dr. Cooley: Beard hair can be used to cover scars in other areas like the moustache area. Regrowth: Do you recommend dr. proctor's products to your patients? Dr. Cooley: I recommend finasteride, 5%minoxidil/tretinoin; I tell patients spironolactone and the new copper peptide (trichomin) may help. I assume most people want treatment with a proven track record (known success rate and side effects) and will shy away from expensive products which have not been well studied. Regrowth: What have you heard about tricomin? Dr. Cooley: I only know that its in the final stages of clinical study; I understand it should be approved for over the counter use this year. I assume if a company spends the money to take it that far it must work, if only a little. Regrowth: so it is in phase III studies now or are they going some other way? Dr. Cooley: I understood it was in phase III studies, but that was secondhand information. Regrowth: Ahh I have heard some results are supposed to be discussed at the live surgery workshop next month so we'll see Regrowth: what sort of results do you see with propecia? Are they similar to what merck's studies say? cessna smirks. Dr. Cooley: I have about forty patients on it, some for over a year. Most have also been using 5%minoxidil/tretinoin. The majority have been pleased with the results (no hair loss and some regrowth). I spend alot of time counseling patients before starting so they have realistic expectations Regrowth: What concentration of retin-a do you recommend and can it be used effectively as a cream applied before minoxidil? Regrowth: Send more questions people :) Dr. Cooley: I prescribed a compound with 0.025% retin-A; the same strength cream would actually be weaker because of less absorbtion in the cream base (also sounds messy) Regrowth: What sort of complications stand in the way of hair cloning becoming a reality? Dr. Cooley: There are three main hurdles: 1) is the regenerated hair permanent and does it grow and cycle normally? 2) is it safe or is there any sign of abnormal cellular activity? 3) does the regenerated hair have the same cosmetic characteristics as the original hair? cessna: tell regrowth Contrary to what Pharmacia&Upjohn says in its literature, is there any benefit to using more than 1ml of 5% minoxidil, even if the area to be treated can not be adequately covered by 1mL? Does the solution diffuse to areas where there is no direct application? Regrowth: What do you think of spironolactone? is it as effective as propecia and is it safe? Dr. Cooley: Regarding spironolactone, it definitely blocks the androgen receptor (but not 100%). It may or may not penetrate the necessary 5 millimeters to the hair bulb to have an effect. I would offer it as a complementary treatment to finasteride not a replacement. Just because a medicine works orally does not mean it will work topically Regrowth: Do you recommend any particular shampoos? Dr. Cooley: Not really, whatever the patients likes. If they have seborrheic dermatitis, I prescirbe Nizoral shampoo. I don't think shampoos have any effect on the hair loss process although they may make the hair look better Regrowth: Have you heard of the mite theory that's popped up in the last week or two and what do you think of it? Dr. Cooley: I haven't heard about it. Regrowth: oh a researcher announced finding the demodex follicularum mites in balding hair follicles and theorized they might be at least a partial cause of hair loss Dr. Cooley: Maybe they cause a little bit of extra harmful inflammation that contributes a little to hair loss. Any questions about transplants? Regrowth: Yes, does anybody have any transplant questions? Mike: tell regrowth how much do they cost in total on average Mike: whoops Regrowth: there's your question :) Dr. Cooley: A session may cost $1500 to $4000 (a good investment, given that the hair is permanent) Regrowth: how many sessions are usually required? Dr. Cooley: Two or three to cover a given area. Regrowth: What other doctors do you recommend for people in other areas besides yours? Particularly would you recommend bosley to someone? mike29: tell regrowth aside from the donor supply (more hair when cloning comes out?). Is there a limit to the density number of transplanted hairs? Dr. Cooley: It is important to meet with the doctor who will be doing the surgery and determine if their experience, techniques and personality suit you. Regarding the question about density, it usually is not necessary to recreate the original density to achieve a satisfying appearance. That is the basisi for hair transplantation mike29: but will cloning with more donor hair to work with change this? Or does the skin reject too many transplants? mike29: sorry regrowth, my browser locks up when I try to send private message to you for questions Dr. Cooley: If cloning is successful, then unlimited quantities of hair can be created and the original density could be achieved (if it works) Regrowth: there's only a few people here now so anybody can ask questions Dr. Cooley: What are people out there using for treatment now? Has anyone had a transplant? Tremor: if you're using a topical treatment, and then consult with a doctor for a transplant, how will the doctor be able to determine which hairs are suitable donors, and which are a result of the treatment, assuming it has worked? mike29: dr, what can people with diffuse thinng expect rom transplants. I've heard that sometimes transplants may cause immediately surrounding hair to stunt in growth. Dr. Cooley: Excellent question. Only hairs from the back and sides of the scalp are used which should never fall out and are probably not being effected by treatment. If you are using minoxidil on the top of the scalp and have transplants into the same area, you may lose alot of those 'minoxidil hairs'. Just something to be aware of. Dr. Cooley: In an area of thinning, transplants can cause some temporary or less likely permanent loss of those hairs. You have to be satisfied that you are replacing them with permanent hairs mkd: Doc, Mexicans seem less prone to baldness. Do they have less DHT in the scalp or are they genetically immune to it? This seems like it would be a key to gene therapy. Dr. Cooley: Hair loss varies a great deal among different ethnic groups. There is less 5-alpha-reductase these areas which is probably genetically determined. Dr. Cooley: Any questions RobCo? mike29: I've heard that sometimes transplanted hair may traumatize surrounding natural hairs and stunt growth. Have you seen this to happen? Dr. Cooley: Yes. If I am transplanting into an area of thinning hair, I warn them that some hair may be lost. You have to be satisfied that the replacement hairs are now permanent Regrowth: Dr. Cooley what do you think are the next big advances in transplantation? Dr. Cooley: I am glad you asked. I don't think the next big thing will be lasers or some high tech device. It will be in the understanding of the importance of carefully harvesting and transplanting the individual units of hair follicles without damaging them. Surprisingly this has only recently been recognized by a few key surgeons Regrowth: So you're a big believer in 'follicular units?' Regrowth: hi bxy1 BXY1: Hello again Dr. Cooley: Yes but not in that they must be transplanted singularly, but rather is singles, doubles and triples (minigrafts). The units should not be broken up because that can damage them. By visualizing the units and protecting, optimal growth is achieved Regrowth: What about the questions of ability to achieve density with follicular units? Dr. Cooley: With grafts containing two and three units (four to eight hairs) satisfactory density can be achieved. With only single units, that is a problem Regrowth: Ah, any questions bxy? Dr. Cooley: or Tremor or mkd Regrowth: What's your opinion of GraftCyte's dressings, dr. cooley? Tremor: any opinion on Dr. Lewenberg's minox+retin-a product Tremor: ? Dr. Cooley: I think that it can definitely promote faster healing and earlier regrowth. Whether it is superior to good post op dressings and minoxidil is something I'd like to study Dr. Cooley: I don't have much information about Dr Lewenberg's products. Regrowth: Well it sounds like nobody has any further questions right now so I guess we'll call it a night. Regrowth: Thanks for coming Dr. Cooley! Tremor: thanks Doc Tremor: peace all.... Dr. Cooley: Thanks alot John, I really enjoyed it Regrowth: We'll do it again some other time... dont' forget to check out www.hair-transplants.net |
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